In the 1970s and 1980s me and all my friends took drugs and drank. None of us died. How do you answer that AA?.

In the 1970s and 1980s me and all my friends took drugs and drank. None of us died. How do you account for that AA?

Must of us didn't seek help or rehab to quit. We stopped on our own. According to AA this is a blasphemies impossibility,  At every meeting you here the members old and new rant the disproven phrase, "You can't beat this thing on your own." The facts backed by clinical studies, is that most people quit on their own. They simply stop, without rehab, without tough love and without AFTA.

So why do they say this. Could it be that the 12 steps are not about quitting drinking/using at all but about cult control, adherence to principles is more important than quitting drinking. At every meeting one also hears the shout, "Keep Coming Back." This applies even if you drink/use/ If The 12 steps are so effective that people stop drinking/using because of them if they are fool proof, if they never fail; then why do people relapse. AA will tell you to "Keep Coming Back" There's something you did wrong but the program works. Think about that for a minute if the 12 steps are  a cure that never fails than why would there be relapsers in the first place, ans no help for the relapsers other than the same old "get a sponsor", "read the book", "do the steps." If i relapse while attending a foolproof program than

1. The program isn't fool proof and
2. the must be some other way since this 80 year old cult failed, and blamed me because their perfect program failed. 

The facts are that the 12 step cult religions AFTA fail 95 to 96% of the time. 4 or 5 out of each 100 who walk into a meeting will be clean/sober at the end of one year. The truth is that most people quit drinking/using on their own. Remember the 1970s, Nobody went to rehab, they just stopped, often times when they got married and started raising children.

The harvard studies have interesting things to say about this as well. What they discovered at Harvard is that the most effective factor in quitting drinking/using is the support of a spouse.  Now these are not supported by amusing embellished anecdotes but by numbers.  It is also supported by common sense, which tells us supportive people are helpful when overcoming a challenge.  You don't hear New England Patriots fans yell f you Brady when he throws an interception, no you hear and there are people there to help him pick himself up dust off, and run the next play moving forwaard, nit running the same play oveer and over trwoing the same interception over and over, until finally he is fired in disgrace and can no longer play fo another NFL team. No he is supported not by strangeres he just met, but by people who have been around him for many years. And they try something different.

But do they say this because its the truth, do they say this to help you, is there any empirical data says exactly the opposite. Most people that's 50% plus 1 quit on their own they in crease their odds of successfully quitting, not by selling their souls to AA, but by a husband or wife who stands by them'

AA even has an answer for this Alanon, where those who love people AA labels as addicts/alcoholics and how to tought love them into sobriety (the cult). They even have alateen to spread the cult to our children, and you know right now writing this and thinking of my daughter sitting in an alateen meeting listening to you cult propaganda  F you AA and the Rehabs that sent me there. How dare you f with my daughters head like that. So the whole family can tough love the drinker/user into sobriety. The only problem with this is it doesn't work. There is no empirical data that proves tough love does anything but alienate already alienated children and keeps them using.

AA KILLS AFTA KILLS

Let that sink in absorb it, everything  "the program" teaches has been proven to be ineffective, in fact counter effective in helping people sdtop drinking and using if they want to. Therefore, the 12 step cult religions are bullshit about something else other than stopping drinking and using, besides killing people they exists to self perpatuate.

 But the hard data the real numbers, hell common sense tells you just the opposite. You don't separate drive a wedge between people to help them.

out grew it we stopped on our own. According to empirical data provided by harvard medical school, this is how most as in more than any other way or program, this is how most people quit, on their own with family and friends. According to the harvard study the most important factor in quitting is the support of a spouse. 

This is of course exactly opposite of what the 12 step cult religions say, they say nothing not even your wife can come before your sobriety, so ditch your wife forget about the kids, mom and dad can wait, they don't want to see you anyway (how do they know, my dad's door was always open) and go to the 12 step indoctrination meetings.

The people who die from drinking and using while tragic, are a very small number in comparison to the domain of people who have experimented with drugs and alcohol, especially during y generation.

I'm back to thinking this idea that people die from drinking using is a parental myth. Even the so called opioid epidemic such a small number of people die in comparison to those millions of people who rely in these miraculous pain killers everyday. These are myths promoted by the 12 step cult religions as an indoctrination tool. If you have had a relative or friend who has died while under the influence, my condolences. But don't blame the substances. WE don't have a drug epidemic in this country, we have a caner epidemic, we have a heart disease epidemic. 

As far as substances more people die from AA/NA than are "saved" by them.. This refer madness mentality about everything under the sun is a 12 step indoctrination tool. To destroy these harmful cult religions, we have to speak the language of reality not their propaganda.

Even Bill Wilson as we see from his history most likely would have switched from alcohol to acid. Btw i don't use don't even like them any more, but they didn’t kill me. AA nearly did. No judgement have fun be safe.

In comparison to both the number of people who have used and drank in their lives and the numbers of people who die each year from cancer and heart disease, substance issues are hardly an epidemic. 

How the 12 Step Cult Religion Ruined My Life Part 1

AA ruined my life for 32 years. It left me broke and homeless. Ever hear that at a meeting? Funny thing is I’m the rule not the exception

to the rule. Let that sink in. Don't go back it doesn't work it breaks up relationships, jobs disappear, and harms the lives of blameless children. AA did that through cult indoctrination and leaving me blind to the real issue, thus I never looked for anything that would really help with my incest issues. Things began to change when I borrowed a book from my then sponsors wife a family law attorney. The book, Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman MD, would that I had walked away then. Its hard to leave a cult. Just don't go no matter what. My dream was to go to Law School Myself, maybe I can salvage that.

I don't have a problem with God just theirs’s. Their non-differentiated god. Their higher power.  Nobody's really honest there even though honesty is supposed to be an important principle. I've heard people say all this positive stuff, then I've seen them at home and it just doesn't match up. They use god as an excuse a lot, and acceptance is an excuse to harm others even their family members. The rooms are one thing and then they only hang with each other and spout the lingo which is indoctrinational.

I am coming to grips with the fact that I had and have no real friends, just AA hucksters. One way or another they want me back in. No they know I'll come crawling back in vulnerable asking for help.   and because everything was supposed to be positive. AA always works. I'll be back.

Except I've looked head on and in the light of reality. My life has steadily gone downhill ever since I was badgered by a CADC to go to AA. I didn't know what a CADC was nor why I was there.

My cry for help was not about drinking/using, it was about something completely different. I must have looked in the wrong place.  In my diocese, in Santa Clara, I thought maybe I could talk to a priest or counselor who had dealt with someone who had cheated on his wife, couldn't stop, even though he wanted to.

But it was the 1980s and it was all about how good the 12 steps were and how they were the remedy for everything. This when I came in at a time when the 12 steps were at their pinnacle they were considered in self-help books to be a panacea for any aliment or disruptive behavior.  Go to Any Fuckking Thin Anonmous (AFTA), just go.

  One just naturally thinks that if so many people are saying such positive things that there must be empirical data to back it up what they say so assuredly. This is the first cult indicator the the assurance that the meetings work but you've got to go to a lot of them.

Being sent to AA and having meetings brought into a hospital setting -- a REHAB --  brought AFTA even more legitimacy.

 But for me even after rehab I had a hard time getting 30 days. I always had 27 days so I continuously humiliated myself by announcing as a newcomer. Would that I had just walked out of that CADCs door and looked up a psychologist. I could realize that though I was so desperate and ashamed not about drinking or using but just in general, and being an incest survivor compliant I just went along with it.

Bur problem drinking/using  is not why I made the appointment at all. I ended up in a CADAC's office I don't know why. I almost left right there, I should have it would have saved a lot of harm humiliation, financial loss and mostly loss of me, myself not knowwing who I was and what had been done to me, I was thrown to a bunch of wolves. A concentrated pod of dysfunction, as Gabrelle Glasser calls it. And in order to fit in, I had to become dysfunctional. This was just exactly the opposite of what I was seeking, but I got sucked into the cult.

I lost all those things they say you lose not from drinking or using but from that harmful abuse treatment that I was used to from my family that was reproduced in AFTA.. It's like I was driven into the exact opposite treatment that I needed. And since I was always a "newcomer" I had the shame of announcing that at every meeting.

Than that cult principle that isn't talked about never the less is there -- the urge to confess took hold. , I began telling people at my job I was alcoholic. I began to believe that my problem was alcohol and drugs. I told friends I was an addict, without even knowing what it meant. What is an addict?

I Began telling family and friends that I was different, I had a disease.

By doing this, by coming out so to speak I only harmed myself and set the stage for a downward spiral from middle class to homelessness. But you couldn't tell me that at the time, one man did , but I wouldn't listen  I ended up harming myself, instead taking a harm reduction approach, the AAers around me told me to tell them the truth my boss, coworkers. How idiotic. And that's not even what it was about I wasn't having trouble with substances, I was having trouble with sexual acting out or re-enacting my childhood sexual abuse experiences. It just so happened that sometimes re-enactment involved drugs and alcohol sometimes it didn't.

I got nowhere except I started losing things because of AA. I couldn't just summon the autonomy to leave.

The first things I lost were my friends, the people I worked with and socialized with, yeah we had a drink once in a while so what. But there was no time for real friends anymore on "AA friends"  cult members who thought the same spoke the same and acted the same in an abusive self-harming manner. I had not thought at all what was happening. I was stating the AFTA downward spiral, and I had no idea. I was just fitting in complying trying to "work" the program.

Slowly it's sinking in AA did this to me, once I completely absorb that truth I will be free. the 12 step cult religions and there's even one for incest made my life a living hell. I had one good year I didn't talk at meetings, I was in a different town so nobody knew me, I never told anybody how much time I had, I went but did not participate and it worked my life got better. But I wasn't dealing with the core issue because hey I was a success in AA.

How could this happen, Part 2.